Jay Shetty & Gabor Maté ON Why Your Trauma Shows up as Guilt, Shame and Fear

The body keeps score of our emotional traumas.

Whether you are aware of it or not, the way you think about yourself and the world influences your life. In some cases, it also influences your health.

 Jay Shetty welcomed Dr. Gabor Maté in this On Purpose episode. They discuss his latest book, The Myth of Normal. They touch on topics such as finding your inner light, dealing with fear and guilt, and becoming authentic. 

The Heart Beneath

Whenever Jay Shetty meets Dr. Gabor Maté, he walks out with new insights into the human mind. This time, he wanted to know how to fix “broken people.” A quote from Frederick Douglass said, “It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.” 

However, Dr. Maté told Jay Shetty that he believes that we are all whole underneath the brokenness. He quotes Leonard Cohen’s Come Healing song. It discusses how undivided love and innate wholeness exist beneath the broken surface. Therefore, Dr. Maté agrees with Douglass, who said people don’t need to be fixed. Instead, they need to let their inner love shine through. 

However, our experiences, especially in childhood, affect our development for a very long time in the future. Dr. Maté told Jay Shetty that the first three years of a child’s life are the most crucial in their development, and they can influence how they see and feel about themselves as adults. 

Dr. Maté opens up to Jay Shetty about a personal experience at a spiritual retreat. Due to his traumatizing childhood as a Jewish boy during the Nazi occupation, he grew to believe that there was no more light inside of him. This thought persisted even though he grew up to become a respected doctor. e also argues that the early disconnect between our true selves is profoundly damaging and has a lasting impact on our lives. 

Identifying the Inner Self

Jay Shetty shares with Dr. Gabor Maté how the volume of his inner voice has fluctuated throughout his life. He could sometimes hear it loud and clear, while other times, it was quiet or even absent. To identify which inner voice is the authentic self and which ones are intrusive thoughts, Dr. Maté suggests paying attention to the way you hear it. 

The authentic self, he tells Jay Shetty , is usually quiet, a “small voice” that requires attention to discern if it comes from within. Being authentic and listening to this voice means being connected to your true self. Conversely, you may be experiencing attachment if you feel the urge to belong. It is important to differentiate between the two to stay true to yourself. 

Dr. Maté suggests paying attention to the moments when you are not true to yourself. It usually takes an emotional toll on you. By practicing self-awareness, you can increase your chances of discovering your inner self, and it can help you question the beliefs that prevent you from living authentically. He told Jay Shetty that finding your true self is a journey, much like healing from trauma. 

The Most Common Emotions

Jay Shetty asked Dr. Gabor Maté what the most common emotions felt by humans are. Jay counts shame, guilt, and fear as the most common feelings. These usually stem from fear of judgment. However, Dr. Maté adds rage, anger, resentment, love, and anxiety to the list of the most commonly felt emotions. 

Dr. Maté argues that it is important to allow yourself to feel happy feelings, even when others around you suffer. It doesn’t mean that you ignore their pain, but it is important to not let the external circumstances influence your sense of guilt. Current and past traumas need to be healed so that your authentic self can emerge, as Bessel van der Kolk wrote in his book “The Body Keeps The Score.” 

The Origin of Fear

Dr. Gabor Maté shares with Jay Shetty how fear links to anxiety. In our modern society, fear often manifests as anxiety. From an evolutionary perspective, fear is necessary to keep us alive. However, healthy fear is linked to an immediate threat. When we start fearing the world, this no longer serves a healthy purpose. This can lead to feeling unsafe on multiple levels. 

Dr. Maté shares with Jay Shetty that fear leads to becoming unable to live the life you wish for. As an example, he discussed how some Indigenous cultures were practically erased when children were forbidden to speak their language in school. Children who used to be fluent in those languages ended up not remembering a word because of the fear of punishment. 

Internalized fear transforms into chronic anxiety. Children are especially prone to developing anxiety if their relationship with their trusted caregiver suffers. They rely solely on adults to survive, so when their needs are not met, they learn that the world is not a safe place for them. It will also become very difficult for them to ask for help because they are used to not receiving any. This is how the cycle of fear and anxiety gets perpetuated. 

Therefore, Dr. Maté emphasizes to Jay Shetty the importance of compassion in relationships with others. It is valuable to help those who are afraid to ask for help but need it. However, the support we offer should be non-invasive. Taking a step toward them shows that we are there for them, and when they are ready, they will feel more comfortable to come to us for help. 

The Importance of Being Authentic

Some people tend to immediately jump to fixing and solving arising issues. However, this is a trauma response, Dr. Gabor Maté told Jay Shetty. It is important to acknowledge our own needs because living to please others can lead to chronic illnesses. 

In his work in palliative care, Dr. Maté had the chance to discuss with terminally ill patients. The most common regret he heard was that they hadn’t lived authentically. They tried to be the best friend, spouse or sibling at the expense of their own happiness. There are also studies that attest that the most common regret of dying people is not being true to themselves and living to please others. 

In one obituary that Dr. Maté read, there was a short story about a doctor who used to eat two dinners every night. He ate one with his old mother and one with his family at home. He wanted to please both women in his life, but overeating started to take a toll on his health. 

Jay Shetty and Dr. Gabor Maté agree that you can never please everybody. Trying to do so will have detrimental effects on your physical and mental health. You are responsible for your actions alone, not for others’ feelings. It is better for you to stay true to yourself, even if you risk disapproval sometimes. Respecting and honoring relationships should come before conforming to others’ expectations of you. 

Guilt as Your Friend

Dr. Gabor Maté shares with Jay Shetty a story from the Bible about Moses. A prophecy said that one Hebrew boy born in Egypt would become a danger to the country. So, the pharaoh ordered all Hebrew boys to be killed. However, Moses’ mother took him, put him in a basket, and set him on the river. He was rescued by the pharaoh’s daughter. But when he was a small child, the pharaoh wanted to test him. So, he gave him a diamond and a ruby red coal to choose from. The diamond meant that he had noble aspirations and would have gotten him killed. As little Moses was reaching for the diamond, his guarding angel moved his hand and made him pick the hot coal instead. Moses, like all small children, put it to his mouth, which the story claims to have led to a later speech impediment. 

The question is whether the guardian angel should feel guilt or not about the outcome. Moses now had a speech impediment, but he was still alive. Therefore, Dr. Maté points out the difference between guilt and healthy remorse. He clarifies that guild often persists into adulthood, even after its protective purpose has served its role. In his view, guilt is an outdated mechanism. It limits adult decision-making and self-expression. We should acknowledge and thank guilt for its past role, yet we are to celebrate the act of self-care. This is the way toward genuine independence. 

Oftentimes, guilt arrives from fear of independence and the unknown. Dr. Maté and Jay Shetty acknowledge that it isn’t easy to surpass it. We are given a choice between two types of pain: the pain of suppressing our authentic self for acceptance or the pain of being true to ourselves but risking rejection. Dr. Maté suggests choosing the latter because being inauthentic is a greater pain than the temporary discomfort of authenticity. 

By being yourself, you can set yourself free, and you have more chances to create genuinely independent relationships. 

Embracing Authenticity after Trauma

Jay Shetty quotes Thich Nhat Hanh, who said that people often choose familiar pain because of the fear of the unknown. Dr. Maté explains the importance of being authentic in dependence and independence. In his opinion, true independence means being honest and genuine in relationships. He also notes the difference between individualism and individuation. Individualism refers to people thinking and living for themselves, separated from others. On the other hand, individuation is a way to keep authentic while still engaging in close relationships. 

Being yourself doesn’t mean that you are free to do whatever you like, including harming others. Dr. Maté and Jay Shetty discuss the higher morality that is ingrained in human beings. Dr. Maté quotes Gunaratana and Saint Augustine, who argue that a higher morality arises from genuine self-awareness and love. It’s not the strict rules that keep us from harming, but our inner compass. 

Additionally, Dr. Maté addresses the potential hierarchy of trauma. He argues that comparing traumas is not helpful since everyone suffers in a different way and severity. He believes that it is important to address each person’s wounds without diminishing their experiences by comparing them to others. He suggests being compassionate and creating an understanding environment for healing, focusing on the individual needs of the person. 

Balance and Emotional Maturity

Jay Shetty shares with Dr. Gabor Maté F. Scott Fitzgerald's statement that a sign of intelligence is being able to hold to opposing ideas at the same time and still be capable to function. For example, one can see that things are hopeless yet still strive to improve them. They discuss the importance of emotional and intellectual growth. It is essential to accept love and anger toward other persons without rejecting their emotions. 

Developing emotional maturity takes time and is often achieved based on healthy role models. In childhood, parents are the main caregivers responsible for teaching their children how to manage their emotions. However, apart from education, global events and personal tragedies can break or mend people’s hearts. It is, therefore important to maintain hope and determination to make a positive impact in the world. Dr. Maté worked in palliative care. There, he met with patients who found a sense of engagement and authenticity in life only after being given a dreadful diagnosis. They were now able to enjoy life and value every precious moment. 

In order to grow personally and emotionally, it is crucial to maintain hope amidst despair. Moreover, positive contributions to the world are crucial for personal growth. Being authentic and engaging with life’s experiences is equally important, regardless of their level of difficulty. 

Dr. Maté highlights with Jay Shetty the importance of seeing life as a continuous growth process. There is no good or bad, enough or not enough. In his opinion, continuous growth represents and emotional and spiritual journey. Even if the physical capacities decline, there is still an evolution in the other areas of life. Therefore, he believes that learning and evolution never stop, as logn as we are alive. 

The Strong Mind-Body Connection

From his clinical experience, Dr. Gabor Maté got acquainted with the close relationship between emotional trauma and physical health. In some cases, trauma can manifest in physical form and turn into an illness. He gave Jay Shetty some examples of patients – one of someone who never felt heard and had the sensation of suffocating. She described her emotional torment as being buried alive. Later in life, she developed ALS, a disease which is described in the same way: being buried alive. 

There is a significant interconnectedness between our emotional, hormonal, nervous, and immune systems. Dr. Gabor Maté explains to Jay Shetty that healing emotional wounds can lead to significant physical recovery. Modern medicine doesn’t always take into account the emotional factor when diagnosing a disease. 

However, some doctors turned to ancient healing practices when modern science seemed like a dead end. Dr. Maté is one of those doctors. He advocates for a holistic health system that unifies all components that contribute to our well-being: emotional, physical, mental, social, and spiritual. 

Dr. Gabor Maté shares with Jay Shetty his wish and hope for the world to awaken to its potential for peace, unity, and mutual support. In his view, conflict and suffering are unnecessary. He envisions a world where people are aware of their possibilities and choose peace and compassion over anger and violence.

More From Jay Shetty

Listen to the entire On Purpose with Jay Shetty podcast episode on “Gabor Maté ON Why Your Trauma Is Showing up as Guilt, Fear and Shame & How to Untrap Yourself From the Past” now in the iTunes store or on Spotify. For more inspirational stories and messages like this, check out Jay’s website at jayshetty.me.

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